One of my biggest frustrations the past year is going from a winning 3/6 and 4/8 game player to being a losing $2/20 player. The losses are somewhat bigger, and when I do win, it is generally for smaller amounts. What to do, what to do? I have tried several different approaches, and sometimes they work o.k., and some go horribly wrong. I try to watch the winning players and figure out why they are winning. The losing players are easy. In general, here are my observations, in the hope that my loyal & disturbed follower might find some useful tidbit of information.
Tight vs. Loose.
The traditional wisdom states that you should "play loose in a tight game, and tight in a loose game". I think that this is probably the bedrock of good play in this game. The problem is that sometimes it is difficult to figure which game you are playing in. A quick example: I was playing "Randy tight" in a moderately tight game. My raises, which were damned few, were met with folds most of the time. Inexplicably, I raised fairly big (maybe to $10) with aces, and the big blind decides to call heads up with garbage. Now, here is a situation where you are playing heads up, out of position with garbage against a hand which figures to be ahead of you 100% of the time. On one hand, you have to love that call, but then he flops a full house and I lose $80. How could this have been prevented? I will discuss later.
In general, I would describe the game as loose most of the time. How else can you explain 7 or 8 players to a flop. Lots of limping, then if a late position player raises, everyone calls. This is the worst thing that can happen to a strong preflop hand. Suddenly, the pot has swelled, and even $20 bets can provide decent odds for calling on both immediate and implied odds. Now, there are lots of players, lots of draws, and a couple of made hands with bottom & middle pairs. Even small pairs may join the war on the dream of their 2 outer. Let's look at the pot: 6 limpers (counting the small blind) = $11, you raise to $10, which makes it $21 to the small blind, who folds. The big blind, stubborn fellow, calls which now makes the pot $31 to the first limper (who should have one of the stronger hands out there since it takes a pretty strong one to limp in early position) who calls. Now it is $41 to the next limper now getting 4/1 on his money. Tempting to call with his pair of 2's "just in case he gets lucky". The next two are no-brainers getting 5/1 & 6/1 on their money. Any two cards time. We now have a $71 pot (less rake), and the most you can bet is $20, giving any caller 3.5/1 on their money. Is it any wonder it is difficult to win? And of course, the more who call the first bet provide even better odds to the others, with improving odds on later streets. Youch!!!!
So, what do you do with the big hand in late position with tons of limpers? One answer is to raise big, like $20 big. This will elicit folds from nearly all players and at least give you heads up or 3/way action with position and the best hand. Much better. If everyone folds, you have won $10 (after toke), which is far better than minimum wage. Another possible strategy is to just call, not raise if you know that a middle size raise will not thin the herd. Now, if the middle or top pair bets, you can raise to isolate if he is a late position player, or re-evaluate your hand if it goes raise, call, re-raise, etc. Aces may be headed for the muck if you are wise beyond your years.
In a very tight game, which I actually prefer, it is possible to raise more often with a wider range in various positions. Due to the tightness of the players, their range is much more defined than in a loose game. If I raise from the button with my suited connectors, or small pair (which I will raise with very often from this spot) and only Randy, Bob F. and Bob P. call, then I know that I have to connect very strongly or my hand is headed for the muck if there is any calling from my continuation bet (which in a tight game, I will nearly always do). It is possible to bluff in any game, but easier in a tight one. Loose players will call with any pair or any draw, and usually with overcards. Tight players will release those 3's when they miss the flop.
This brings up the next topic: Bluffing
In general, don't. But, be prepared to call some players light, as there is sometimes a lot of bluffing. Pay attention to bet sizing. Some players will overbet the pot when they bluff or semi-bluff draws. I have won some pretty good pots through bluffs, but have totally given up the practice of running a bluff all the way....preflop to river. Just too expensive given the calling station nature of the game.
Monte Board Effect
One of the main reasons that the Moose game is such a colossal suck out bad game is the presence of the Monte Carlo board & to some extent, the high hand board. Both of these are very appealing to the "gambler", not the good poker player. Consider that the $1. drop is lost money down the rathole for most players (I say that despite having "won" more than $2500 this year). Most of my wins have been given back in session losses and hey with the new system I have to pay taxes on all the money.
What the monte & high hand board does is encourage the gamblers to play hands better mucked. Yes, 2/6 suited will make a straight flush, but I play a heck of a lot and can count my straight flushes on two hands. Where it hurts you is they incorrectly call your preflop raise and hit paydirt with a 2/2/7 flop which cracks your aces. The high hand encourages the play of weak aces, which is o.k. against my strong ace unless they hit their kicker, or against my k/k when they hit their 3-outer ace. Again, mixed blessing to get their call, and overall they lose with these hands, but in the meantime they cause you great variance. My good friend, Bob P. says he hasn't hit a straight all year with suited connectors. And, as a special bonus when you hit your flush you are usually behind a big flush.
Flushmasters
This brings me to the next subject, the players who will play ATC suited cards. Kids, they just haven't looked at the stats. Being suited only adds a little benefit to the hand. My strategy is to muck them unless in a blind with lots of limpers (or sometimes on the button), but always with at least connection and/or high card strength. So, KQ, J, 10, suited, good to go. Q/2 suited, not so much. Again, where the flushmasters hurt you is when they flop their random 2 pair, or trip hands and it is very hard to put them on it. My best advice is watch the hands they show down and classify them as flushmasters or acemasters and play accordingly.
Checking it Down
Oh, the stories I can tell about this. Suffice it to say, have written about this before, but I am checking it down with damn few people these days. This is costing me money, but even heads up, you cannot get people off draws. In a legitimate no-limit game it would be easy to do so. In the spread game, no. I have seen a couple of regulars who will call a $20 preflop raise, heads up and then check it down with you. About 1/2 the time they will draw out on you, so net/net there is no profit for you. I would prefer they fold, and then go on to the next hand.
Well, don't know if there is any "new" information here, but suffice it to say, I have still not figured this game out. All I can do is try to minimize my losses and "play the heaters".
Tight vs. Loose.
The traditional wisdom states that you should "play loose in a tight game, and tight in a loose game". I think that this is probably the bedrock of good play in this game. The problem is that sometimes it is difficult to figure which game you are playing in. A quick example: I was playing "Randy tight" in a moderately tight game. My raises, which were damned few, were met with folds most of the time. Inexplicably, I raised fairly big (maybe to $10) with aces, and the big blind decides to call heads up with garbage. Now, here is a situation where you are playing heads up, out of position with garbage against a hand which figures to be ahead of you 100% of the time. On one hand, you have to love that call, but then he flops a full house and I lose $80. How could this have been prevented? I will discuss later.
In general, I would describe the game as loose most of the time. How else can you explain 7 or 8 players to a flop. Lots of limping, then if a late position player raises, everyone calls. This is the worst thing that can happen to a strong preflop hand. Suddenly, the pot has swelled, and even $20 bets can provide decent odds for calling on both immediate and implied odds. Now, there are lots of players, lots of draws, and a couple of made hands with bottom & middle pairs. Even small pairs may join the war on the dream of their 2 outer. Let's look at the pot: 6 limpers (counting the small blind) = $11, you raise to $10, which makes it $21 to the small blind, who folds. The big blind, stubborn fellow, calls which now makes the pot $31 to the first limper (who should have one of the stronger hands out there since it takes a pretty strong one to limp in early position) who calls. Now it is $41 to the next limper now getting 4/1 on his money. Tempting to call with his pair of 2's "just in case he gets lucky". The next two are no-brainers getting 5/1 & 6/1 on their money. Any two cards time. We now have a $71 pot (less rake), and the most you can bet is $20, giving any caller 3.5/1 on their money. Is it any wonder it is difficult to win? And of course, the more who call the first bet provide even better odds to the others, with improving odds on later streets. Youch!!!!
So, what do you do with the big hand in late position with tons of limpers? One answer is to raise big, like $20 big. This will elicit folds from nearly all players and at least give you heads up or 3/way action with position and the best hand. Much better. If everyone folds, you have won $10 (after toke), which is far better than minimum wage. Another possible strategy is to just call, not raise if you know that a middle size raise will not thin the herd. Now, if the middle or top pair bets, you can raise to isolate if he is a late position player, or re-evaluate your hand if it goes raise, call, re-raise, etc. Aces may be headed for the muck if you are wise beyond your years.
In a very tight game, which I actually prefer, it is possible to raise more often with a wider range in various positions. Due to the tightness of the players, their range is much more defined than in a loose game. If I raise from the button with my suited connectors, or small pair (which I will raise with very often from this spot) and only Randy, Bob F. and Bob P. call, then I know that I have to connect very strongly or my hand is headed for the muck if there is any calling from my continuation bet (which in a tight game, I will nearly always do). It is possible to bluff in any game, but easier in a tight one. Loose players will call with any pair or any draw, and usually with overcards. Tight players will release those 3's when they miss the flop.
This brings up the next topic: Bluffing
In general, don't. But, be prepared to call some players light, as there is sometimes a lot of bluffing. Pay attention to bet sizing. Some players will overbet the pot when they bluff or semi-bluff draws. I have won some pretty good pots through bluffs, but have totally given up the practice of running a bluff all the way....preflop to river. Just too expensive given the calling station nature of the game.
Monte Board Effect
One of the main reasons that the Moose game is such a colossal suck out bad game is the presence of the Monte Carlo board & to some extent, the high hand board. Both of these are very appealing to the "gambler", not the good poker player. Consider that the $1. drop is lost money down the rathole for most players (I say that despite having "won" more than $2500 this year). Most of my wins have been given back in session losses and hey with the new system I have to pay taxes on all the money.
What the monte & high hand board does is encourage the gamblers to play hands better mucked. Yes, 2/6 suited will make a straight flush, but I play a heck of a lot and can count my straight flushes on two hands. Where it hurts you is they incorrectly call your preflop raise and hit paydirt with a 2/2/7 flop which cracks your aces. The high hand encourages the play of weak aces, which is o.k. against my strong ace unless they hit their kicker, or against my k/k when they hit their 3-outer ace. Again, mixed blessing to get their call, and overall they lose with these hands, but in the meantime they cause you great variance. My good friend, Bob P. says he hasn't hit a straight all year with suited connectors. And, as a special bonus when you hit your flush you are usually behind a big flush.
Flushmasters
This brings me to the next subject, the players who will play ATC suited cards. Kids, they just haven't looked at the stats. Being suited only adds a little benefit to the hand. My strategy is to muck them unless in a blind with lots of limpers (or sometimes on the button), but always with at least connection and/or high card strength. So, KQ, J, 10, suited, good to go. Q/2 suited, not so much. Again, where the flushmasters hurt you is when they flop their random 2 pair, or trip hands and it is very hard to put them on it. My best advice is watch the hands they show down and classify them as flushmasters or acemasters and play accordingly.
Checking it Down
Oh, the stories I can tell about this. Suffice it to say, have written about this before, but I am checking it down with damn few people these days. This is costing me money, but even heads up, you cannot get people off draws. In a legitimate no-limit game it would be easy to do so. In the spread game, no. I have seen a couple of regulars who will call a $20 preflop raise, heads up and then check it down with you. About 1/2 the time they will draw out on you, so net/net there is no profit for you. I would prefer they fold, and then go on to the next hand.
Well, don't know if there is any "new" information here, but suffice it to say, I have still not figured this game out. All I can do is try to minimize my losses and "play the heaters".
1 comment:
My but you do wax verbose! I think that's your longest blog ever.
My first & most important question is - who is this loyal and "disturbed" follower you refer to? LOL. Can't be me. Well . . . maybe.
You make a lot of very good points. Pot odds in the 2-20 game are ridiculous. I call tons of hands that I shouldn't call hoping to flop big because of the odds. This is probably the main problem with any form of limit poker, but what are you gonna do? I guess you just have to be really selective.
I also try to never limp. Howard Lederer said that in limit poker you should never limp. Always raise, reraise or fold. Those are the only options.
I usually prefer a loose game because most of the idiots have to hit a draw & most of the time they don't. Tight games are quite frankly BORING.
As for the Monte Carlo board - it's like drugs. Just say no. I rarely play for the board. If I happen to wake up to AK suited, it's hard to fold it anyway, but I try not to think about the stupid board.
Checking it down is my least favorite thing after the slow roll. I'm in total agreement with you on that one. It just doesn't pay most of the time.
Hope to see you soon! By the way, I'm not blogging much because all I have to say is negative right now. Waiting for things to turn around a bit.
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